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@alf
we're offering $700 Billion.
if they don't take that offer they just get blockaded and invaded and Denmark can throw butter cookies at us.
I think everyone is basically admitted to the fact that International Law is meaningless. We're in the Strong Do What They Can / Weak Suffer What They Must stage of the empire.
@cjd @alf @magicalthinking it seems weird that there are people who think something comes before force. That one can start with principles, and derive a stable world from that, rather than start from a stable world and derive principles
I'm sure there's a more eloquent way to put it but hopefully it's clear what I'm saying
I'm sure there's a more eloquent way to put it but hopefully it's clear what I'm saying
First comes force. Then comes the recognition that in a world ruled by force alone, everybody loses. From that comes law, norms, and red lines. Then from comes the desire to break the rules to gain a little bit of advantage. Then from that, we go back to a world ruled by brute force.
We're in phase 3/4, depending on who you ask.
We're in phase 3/4, depending on who you ask.
@cjd @alf @magicalthinking I guess you gotta hope that you'll end up with people who have the ability to use force, will be willing to be principled and defend these principles, and these principles are good.
I guess that's why I like the US and really hope for their success, they seem like the only ones who may be capable of holding and defending good principles. Everyone else is weak and so comes across as hypocritical when their laws are violated, holds bad laws, or just uses force and doesn't bother with consistency.
I guess that's why I like the US and really hope for their success, they seem like the only ones who may be capable of holding and defending good principles. Everyone else is weak and so comes across as hypocritical when their laws are violated, holds bad laws, or just uses force and doesn't bother with consistency.
The problem is the US doesn't have principles either anymore. That's why we're here.
Rule by force selects for those most capable of projecting violence. This is at least eugenic because it "capable of projecting violence" implies organization, cleverness, and general evolutionary fitness. The weak are pushed back into the margins and the failed genetic mutants get wiped out.
But then the powerful come up against each other, and this is when they recognize that in perpetual war, everybody loses. This is the point at which they lay down some rules & norms, and they agree to abide by them, because they know war and they would rather restrain themselves than end up in it.
But in a world where everyone restrains themselves, being a little bit less restrained confers significant advantage. So people will always aim to cheat, first a little, then a lot, and then the rules and norms themselves become meaningless.
That's the "coyote ran off the cliff" moment, when everybody is still pretending the rules are important even though everyone is cheating in one way or another and nobody is really motivated to enforce them.
It has been argued that Putin is an Übermensch, because he is able to place himself outside of the paradigm and change the course of history. What is clear is that he was unique in having recognized early the collapse of international norms and The Countries On The Map Are Free, You Can Take Them Home With You. That is to say, you can just do things and nobody is going to be motivated enough to really fight to stop you.
Rule by force selects for those most capable of projecting violence. This is at least eugenic because it "capable of projecting violence" implies organization, cleverness, and general evolutionary fitness. The weak are pushed back into the margins and the failed genetic mutants get wiped out.
But then the powerful come up against each other, and this is when they recognize that in perpetual war, everybody loses. This is the point at which they lay down some rules & norms, and they agree to abide by them, because they know war and they would rather restrain themselves than end up in it.
But in a world where everyone restrains themselves, being a little bit less restrained confers significant advantage. So people will always aim to cheat, first a little, then a lot, and then the rules and norms themselves become meaningless.
That's the "coyote ran off the cliff" moment, when everybody is still pretending the rules are important even though everyone is cheating in one way or another and nobody is really motivated to enforce them.
It has been argued that Putin is an Übermensch, because he is able to place himself outside of the paradigm and change the course of history. What is clear is that he was unique in having recognized early the collapse of international norms and The Countries On The Map Are Free, You Can Take Them Home With You. That is to say, you can just do things and nobody is going to be motivated enough to really fight to stop you.
"The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools" -Thucydides
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