Egregoros

Fine. I'll watch it this morning.

Caleb James DeLisle

@irie@detroitriotcity.com remote

I watched it. I initially gave it a 4/10.

It's a b-movie. I get the feeling that making Scorsese level work is just incredibly fucking hard, and the most that most people will ever manage to accomplish is b-movie level stuff.

That said, there's a huge subtext to the film, and if you get it then it's maybe more of a 5.5 or even a 6.

It's still a b-movie, but the subtext is nuanced and there's more to it than a plotless copy of V-for-Vendetta.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

イリエ

@cjd @pyrate @catmanmancat

the definition of a B-movie usually boils down to
- low-budget
- lesser known/uknown actors
- focus on a genre (as a consequence)

but no one can claim there are no low-budget movies with lesser known/unknown actors that have depth or quality to them. A movie can be low-budget, feature unknown actors, and still sweep awards at film festivals. It's not the budget, it's not the actors, Boll was always known for 'less demanding' stuff. And I wouldn't say this is his fate, it's his decision to do what he does. And to slightly defend him here, and others like him, if there is a time and a place for high art, there is also a time and a place for low art. Not every book needs to be a Dostoyevsky. And in the current cultural moment, his movie seems to have accomplished something.

Replies

Replying to @irie@detroitriotcity.com

Caleb James DeLisle

@irie@detroitriotcity.com remote

For me, if someone does an incredible work of art on a tight budget, that's called an "indy movie", and b-movies are more kind of low tier entertainment.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

イリエ

@cjd @pyrate @catmanmancat yea I kinda argued around the labels and focused on what defines them, but I agree

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

therealCrusader

@rw@noauthority.social remote

@cjd @irie@detroitriotcity.com @pyrate @catmanmancat@poa.st I saw a clip of the scene with driving the judge out into the countryside. Why did they need to add a (poorly done) explosion to the car accident? Really takes away from the gritty story.

Replying to @rw@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

There must be like a law or something that all action scenes need to be completely unrealistic, because NOBODY is the slightest bit accurate with any action scene. It's frustrating.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

That is because real action is actually very difficult to choreograph and requires hiring actual goons who naturally know things, using high quality props, having an expanded budget for multiple takes, multiple pyrotechnic uses and so on. Uwe Boll went with simplicity, but it was still one of the more expensive components of the film.

I don't really care about guns and tactics needing to be hyper real, noticing the slight discounts isn't really worth going down a purity spiral.

> tell the story
> resonate with the current demand for a genre

To be honest, Hollywood has taken a long hiatus from films featuring a vigilante hero. I do not include Marvel in this scope because capeslop others the protagonists from ordinary people. Even Bruce Wayne is out there dumping stacks of cash on new batsuits and being more liberal with each passing gen!

Replying to @pyrate@nicecrew.digital

Caleb James DeLisle

> capeslop others the protagonists from ordinary people

CV is an American old money landlord (implied Jewish), seizing control over Germany because the hapless Germans will not lift a finger to prevent their own extinction - so definitely not some ordinary person.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Caleb James DeLisle

Also, I'm not expecting everything to be ballistics correct, I just mean TRY to resist the urge to create totally unrealistic situations like police shootouts and explosions just because you want an exciting action sequence. You can be exciting and still more-or-less realistic.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

Indeed, and the military academy bit with the Hebrew tattoos leads one to wonder if he served as an officer. Though they never develop this.

Replying to @pyrate@nicecrew.digital

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

That said, I think Uwe Boll should do a dramatic telling of the Killdozer story next if this is how he wants to cash in.

Replying to @pyrate@nicecrew.digital

Caleb James DeLisle

I could write you a movie that would make CIA goons shit in their pants because it would present a method of overthrowing the government which they have absolutely no answer to.

But the thing is, pitching a movie, and getting it funded and distributed, are two different things. If you want your movie to get from an idea in your head to film, you need to tell a story that vibes with people who have the money to make it happen...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

I wouldn't do a movie. I would do a video game.

Replying to @rw@noauthority.social

WhitestTemplar

@rw @cjd @pyrate He had the money to do one more special effect and so did that is my guess. There was also a scene where one of the cops getting gunned down by AK 47's the entire front of the skull exploded. A bit overkill even for the AK.

Replying to @WhitestTemplar@poa.st

Caleb James DeLisle

I'm okay with bad ballistics, I just want a police raid on a building to look like they're following some kind of a protocol. Having a detective rushing in with a bunch of SWAT team, standing around talking without having cleared every room, etc - it breaks immersion...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

WhitestTemplar

@cjd @pyrate @rw Agreed. All that info can be found for free online so there really isn't much excuse except I guess the plot required the detective guy to be in the building to be blown up.

Replying to @WhitestTemplar@poa.st

Caleb James DeLisle

I can tolerate a little bit of bending the rules. If they needed the detective to be blown up, they could have had a camera / bomb in the wall that was remote detonated when he was standing there.

The worst offense is the scene with a whole bunch of cops rushing a fortified bunker and then standing there while he reads them some lame script and then proceeds to mow them over.

What I thought he was gonna do was take a position across the road and pick them off while they scramble down that ridiculously long super exposed one-person-wide staircase of death.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

A single XBEE 2.4ghz dev board and two servos on the AK's for funsies.

Replying to @pyrate@nicecrew.digital

Caleb James DeLisle

Yes and you don't even need to imagine it, because it already totally and completely exists...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

There are autists on instagram right now dropping precision sentries for drone deterrents. Built out of off the shelf parts and 3D printing too...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

WhitestTemplar

@cjd @pyrate @rw Does it include some kind of IFF system?

Replying to @WhitestTemplar@poa.st

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

It can. Facial recognition is one measure you could deploy. Or you could do a BLE beacon and have a directional antenna sweep the killzone. Locks out if the unique beacon is detected.

Replying to @pyrate@nicecrew.digital

Caleb James DeLisle

I don't think it (in its current form) has anything except "go" and "stop".

It's definitely not going to be fast enough for facial recognition, the goal is to see moving things and shoot them *immediately*.

One obvious way to make it safer is to limit its swing - so you can be behind it.

Remote control limitation is in battlefield scenarios, everything is subject to copious jamming.

Replying to @WhitestTemplar@poa.st

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

I was just thinking something real stupid tho, like you send the command and the AKs spray until the mags are empty. (Idk why you would use AKs when PKMs would actually make limbs explode.)

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

WhitestTemplar

@cjd @pyrate @rw Sniper scene could have been even cooler looking than the AK scene, and not just for realism purposes. Better yet, mixed tactics. Plant remote detonated explosives in the house, if the speech was really necessary, record it and play it over a speaker, proceed to detonate explosive charges and snipe the ones that were on the outside.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

That's why I'm thinking a rogue like game where you play the vigilante but in this "werewolf" or "mafia" style rotation where the game has a cycle. Outlast a given number of cycles and you advance in progression, cities and so on. If the heat gets too hot, and you can't leave the region due to being made, then the game advances to the siege ending where you get to fortify, or endure an expanded stealth mission to flee.

At another level I know someone who is doing brilliant work with NPC generation and behaviors to remember "vibes" from a player's decisions.

The genre would be similar to Deus Ex/Hitman. A lot of stealth, strategic thinking and crafting escape plans. Nothing guided. You have to go in with the information before the game, plot your mission then choose to follow it or scrap it. There will always be "another way" to execute/escape etc.

Idk, I think it would be more of a hit people would just keep coming back for.

Replying to @pyrate@nicecrew.digital

Caleb James DeLisle

You can't really accomplish anything alone. The model is something like Fight Club, but the First Rule Of Fight Club is "We Never Do Anything Illegal"...

You gotta drum that in to people that the group as a whole is not doing criminal stuff b/c talking about crime is how you build a case against yourself.

All direct action is done in 3 person teams where nobody can be entirely sure who actually did it.

You need to be self-sufficient, so you need to be collecting ransom / tax / tribute money to fund operations.

Technology will do a hell of a lot for you, you'd better be into 3d printing...

IMO easier to make as a film than as a game, but IDK much about games anymore...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢

Yea, I'm definitely not talking about anything irl.

I just know a game with these elements and some good writing would just stack customers.

Replying to @WhitestTemplar@poa.st

𝔭𝔶𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔢