Egregoros

@mangeurdenuage @meso @moth_ball @phnt ok, this was way easier to read after i slept now, instead of when i was giga sleepy

>ISP invoice payments
holy fuck how horrifying, credit cards exist, why would anyone do this nightmare, its like paying for things with the telecom (phone) invoice bill. i absolutely do not at all approve of this concept at all

for the definition of hack, "i am sleeping and bad digital-related things happen in the background commited by a malicious actor behind my back with 0 input of my own", i guess some also call hack if its a social hack and similar, but this should suffice for meaning

for the rest of the disagreements, i will continue to disagree, very intensely, as my anecdotal and localized [statistical] experiences shout an opposite situation at me. perhaps the situation is severely different on your side of the continent.

as for the trouble of raising awareness, i guess thats exclusively, ironically, training yourself to be better at social manipulation. reminds me of some insane insanities that when they happened for the first time for me, caught me mega offguard.

the following all goes completely off topic and instead goes to the topic of how to manipulate people successfully (im not the greatest at this but they are learning moments)

a irl friend made a website, and it had signing up as users and passwords, and i was testing it and found that usernames were case sensitive (like passwords usually are)

i had a day long argument with him saying "thats retarded for a forward facing public website for public use for random users" and his counter was "but its securer, like unix, unix is like this too!" and i said "the username is public, what difference does it make but allow people to confuse others by having the same username with different capitalization + confusing yourself when you accidentally capitalize your username occasionally and are told shit dont match up?" (i completely lost arguing for my side here and nothing was changed but us two becoming slightly less friends)

another one was trying to argue to my mother many a year ago, to be more clean when cooking, because cross contamination etc etc for years (both before and after my cooking era).
victory came after years when i aggressively guilt tripped and screamed threateningly that my mother had caused me great grievance, pain, suffering, etc. facts are fucking worthless so often to the common man when changing the ideascape that they operate in. facts only serve to create a foundation to force an emotional and personal manipulation to occur if there is even 5% of emotion involved in the topic.

another thing in the army training for military police was (this one might be relate with your soul and situations) that if you teach a soldier to do something, you either teach him the thing from 0 to 100, on three separate times on separate days, or its worse than not teaching them at all. which turned out to be correct again, again, again, and again, over the course of a year. i think maybe 1 in 20 people, this did not apply to in most topics. this type of teaching-training-theoretical-and-pracitcal-knowledge really helped me in civilian life later towards becoming a good team/workbrigade leader and i guess is a major reason why i have the job(s) i have now (yay). leadership/mentorship training (and related emotional manipulation tactics) are cool. using these techniques successfully against my family members is also pretty good for the overall family unit. a calculated, unignoreable pain/uncomfort strike to break a certain pattern and rebuild it into a stronger and more mutually beneficial pattern.

back on to the topic and i guess my closing words for the original topic

reading the latest reply of yours, i have come to the understanding of why you (have come to) see the PoV that you see and why its real for your position, i hope you come to a similar/same reversed understanding towards me

@lebronjames75 @meso @moth_ball @phnt
>holy fuck how horrifying, credit cards exist, why would anyone do this nightmare,
Pic related.
Get in the head of marketing/bankers.
The less people have to think on how to spend the more they spend.
In France credit cards cannot be used with the swipe/magnetic side band, you have to enter it and enter your pin.
Well that's incorrect, in the past decade the corrupt/French gov allowed banks to allow NFC payments with a credit card and thus people can pay up to 100eur without needing to even put their pin, just have a enough range and you steal shit tons of money :DDD

> and found that usernames were case sensitive (like passwords usually are)
>"but its securer, like unix, unix is like this too!"
The ID is public it doesn't matter, as I've stated previously.

>"the username is public, what difference does it make
Like I said.

>what difference does it make but allow people to confuse others by having the same username with different capitalization + confusing yourself when you accidentally capitalize your username occasionally and are told shit dont match up?
In this context I agree as it's not lowering the entry bar.
In other contexts, lowering the entry bar is a mistake.

>(i completely lost arguing for my side here and nothing was changed but us two becoming slightly less friends)
But, I'll add that this would not have happened if sane digital hygiene for normies would be a thing.
This would not be an issue at all if normies used a password manager/nitro-key.
They'd just copy paste and voila.
Again the domino effect that lead to this is tied to proprietary software. Because proprietary software continuously lowered the entry bar (streamlined like they say in gaming) so that more and more low IQ people could use computers.
So that a bigger user bases could exist.

> because cross contamination etc etc for years
Same issue, especially with rinsing dishes, most of the food she makes has an after taste of dish cleaner.
I get told "that's a waste of water" better to waste a bit of water than to pay medical bills.
Same for food, better to eat slightly less food quantities and eat rich nutrients dense ones instead. People don't understand how I can live with so little rations. they're just much denser nutrients wise but they don't get it. And that's notably because all of what the information around them are constantly spewing the opposite and/or what I've learned is absent from their information pool.
In the end it falls down to the level of trust people have with you. Which is a quantifiable statistic.

>victory came after years when i aggressively guilt tripped and screamed threateningly that my mother had caused me great grievance, pain, suffering,
Ever heard of NVC ? It has good results with people who actually want to speak with you. And I say that because as much it works with my mother I didn't realize in time that my father didn't want to communicate at all.

>facts are fucking worthless so often to the common man when changing the ideascape that they operate in
It's an issue of visualization.
Often I forget to remember people in my explanations that what I'm telling them is so they'll avoid recurring troubles in the future if they follow this. Also part of NVC. But I haven't practiced NVC in a long time.

> you either teach him the thing from 0 to 100, on three separate times on separate days, or its worse than not teaching them at all
Yes. But that's also their job. In my case the average it's not their job, that's their perspective. They just want shit to work like you described in the beginning with your friend insistence on sensitive case.
So they're already in a state where they don't want to learn. And you can thank the fangman for this.

>leadership/mentorship training (and related emotional manipulation tactics) are cool
My old man was a military man, these methods backfired him so much that he lost everything.

> i have come to the understanding of why you (have come to) see the PoV that you see and why its real for your position
It's my experience. Like you again and again and again, it's not hundreds of people I've services, it's thousands all over France (and some border countries) due to my father's enslaving me in his catering business but I didn't let go of computing (it'd remove myself if I ever stop this field).
Imagine doing 140h a week for a decade and in add stuffing computing repair/maintenance in that. Also add to that the migration from Microsoft™ certified™/Cisco™ brain to GNU/linux.

>i hope you come to a similar/same reversed understanding towards me
I understand it's your experience. I don't deny it. I'm pondering of the outcome long term wise of your method.
In my case the few people who listened to me still have the same computer for over a decade ago. They have not lost their data. And their data hasn't been stolen (aside the one the gov keeps leaking). So they have little trouble.
The others are still having the same trouble and keep loosing money to scammers who pretend they know shit about computing. They do know how to manipulate people tho like you suggested.
Nothing is perfect. Again it all comes to trust.