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@sun okay but what do you actually mean by methodological flaws because I cannot imagine LLMs actually being able to map out that logic considering they're token predictors and the correctness of an argument is determined by its validity

And sorry, everyone keeps saying stuff about LLM this and that, if it's run by the same incestuous pool of sociopaths I want nothing to do with the product. I'm good. I like my life the way it is without promoting a chat bot regularly for a dopamine rush.

I will never be at any point in my life where I am trying to have conversations with myself through an LLM. I studied philosophy logic quite a bit, that's something I should do and a skill I would like to continue to refine, not delegate to a clanker.
@subnetter there is a metric fuckton of secret sauce layered over top of LLMs and I think that is the difference. I don't have a good explanation for why sometimes LLMs seem to work unreasonably good at tasks that don't seem at all like they are solvable with token prediction.

So as an example I made a statement of fact and it pushed back. I elucidated further and got more concessions and pushback, but it accused me of, whenever a wrinkle in my argument appeared, I just expanded the scope of the cause until I started with a very small testable thing and ended up with a worldwide conspiracy. And I go back through my conversation and that is in fact exactly what I did. So again I don't know why it was able to detect that, based on "stochastic parrot mathematics" but it worked good enough to correct me, who was actually trying to use human logic and failing.
@sun @subnetter this effect is not because the LLM has secret sauce, it's because you haven't thought hard enough about how what it does is pattern matching and fuzzy correlation between a and b

for me they consistently cannot elucidate holes in actual formal arguments that _require_ step-by-step reasoning to respond to, because they are incapable of that, but ofc looser statements about politics or world events they can generate seemingly meaningful output in response to
@whiteline @subnetter formal arguments aren't the same animal and yes they can't actually do that very well. but for the class I was experimenting with I'm sorry but it really is better at poking holes in them than one would expect, there are certainly humans that are better than it at doing that but my point is that it is a computer program that can do it perfectly serviceably, which makes it definitely a good tool for normal people who aren't philosophy majors

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