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@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @volpeon@icy.wyvern.rip Just because Arch is terrible doesn't mean this applies to every other distro though.
@SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @volpeon@icy.wyvern.rip it does not have to do anything with arch itself. This can happen with every distro, if GRUB gets an update but fails or if the initcpio-Image was not build successfully.
The best way to avoid those issues is, by reading through the output of your package manager and ensuring that the installation of GRUB and the Initcpio process were successful.
@kitsune_yasu@waldbewohner.eu @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @volpeon@icy.wyvern.rip
This can happen with every distro, if GRUB gets an update but fails or if the initcpio-Image was not build successfully.I'm not that familiar with Arch, but it sounds extremely incompetent to me that Pacman would just continue updating and not fail if grub-install fails.
Debian, for example, has a transaction based package manager so that makes sure when failures like this happen the old stuff that was previously working is not overwritten. So that definitely sounds like a design flaw in Pacman.
@SuperDicq @lanodan @kitsune_yasu @volpeon pacman never does anything with a bootloader. There are two (three) main failure modes that pacman has:
- distro keyring not up to date, failing package authenticity check (archlinux-keyring needs to be updated first)
- pacman deletes initrds on transaction start meaning that if your system fails in the middle of an update, you not only have a system in an unknown state with half-extracted packages, but also no kernel to boot
- when using BTRFS, the free space check can fail because free space as reported by BTRFS isn't actually real and it doesn't use the specific btrfs library for getting free space
- distro keyring not up to date, failing package authenticity check (archlinux-keyring needs to be updated first)
- pacman deletes initrds on transaction start meaning that if your system fails in the middle of an update, you not only have a system in an unknown state with half-extracted packages, but also no kernel to boot
- when using BTRFS, the free space check can fail because free space as reported by BTRFS isn't actually real and it doesn't use the specific btrfs library for getting free space
@phnt@fluffytail.org @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @kitsune_yasu@waldbewohner.eu @volpeon@icy.wyvern.rip
- distro keyring not update to date failing package authenticity check (archlinux-keyring needs to be updated first)Wait, that's not supposed to happen?
@lolitechengineer @phnt @SuperDicq It's not, other distros just have keyring put into a package, so it gets updated normally.
I got that one in my containers and well… tossed Arch out definitively because there's a point where it's just pure incompetence.
I got that one in my containers and well… tossed Arch out definitively because there's a point where it's just pure incompetence.
@lanodan @lolitechengineer @SuperDicq It is packaged and it gets updated when you update the system, but when you don't update for a long time, new packages can be signed with keys that aren't in your old system keyring and there's no automatic pre-upgrade step for updating that keyring. Hence why the manual update is necessary.
Gentoo solved this issue by force-updating the wkd on every update before emerge even resolves dependencies.
Gentoo solved this issue by force-updating the wkd on every update before emerge even resolves dependencies.
@phnt@fluffytail.org @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @lolitechengineer@loli.church At least we can all agree here that Arch is terribly designed.
@SuperDicq @lanodan @lolitechengineer Nope, still the best power user distro if you don't need the use flag autism of Gentoo. Everything else including Debian is a bad joke (except Mint for newbies).
@phnt@fluffytail.org @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @lolitechengineer@loli.church Also the best power user distro is GNU Guix.
How can you even call yourself a power user if you have never learned the power of Scheme?
@SuperDicq @lanodan @lolitechengineer ((((((((((lisp))))))))))
I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole
I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole
@phnt@fluffytail.org @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @lolitechengineer@loli.church That's fine, not everybody has to be a power user.
@SuperDicq @lanodan @lolitechengineer It is gnuware anyway, so I wouldn't use it either way unless I absolutely had to.
@phnt@fluffytail.org @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @lolitechengineer@loli.church You one of those weirdo Alpine/Chimera GNU avoiders? Having nightmares of Stallman's feet?
@SuperDicq @lanodan @lolitechengineer No, but I would run LLVM/musl Gentoo profile if I didn't want to use Steam.
@SuperDicq @lanodan @lolitechengineer Not for technical reasons (except glibc sucking), but just to spite people like you. :)
@shinyoukai@izu.laidback.moe @phnt@fluffytail.org @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me BSD seems really interesting but it seems its not ready yet
@lolitechengineer also Hyperbola is a fucking joke, 2026 and they never released @SuperDicq @lanodan @phnt
@shinyoukai@izu.laidback.moe @lolitechengineer@loli.church @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @phnt@fluffytail.org I personally think Hyperbola is a bit of a nutjob project in my opinion.
For example the only reason they are making a BSD version now I think is because they think Rust in Linux is bad. I mean I don't like Rust either, but is it that really enough of a reason to switch to fucking BSD? Wouldn't it be less bad to just remove the Rust parts from Linux?
Hyperbola also does not allow any software that is developed by a for-profit company. Yes this means that Hyperbola does not support basic shit like zstd because it is developed Facebook.
It's bonkers.
If I really wanted to screw up my system using pacman I'd rather install Parabola which seems like a project ran by sane people.
@SuperDicq @lanodan @phnt @lolitechengineer @shinyoukai Hyperbola's wiki + removed/hold list is some funny shit to laugh at, holding gimp to 2.10 because only want GTK2 version, git due to Rust, and mpv for some vague reason. Vaguely looking at the forum activity there's barely any users, and I only know off a Youtuber intentially installing it for his Thinkpad x60 last year. Might as well go Debian/Devuan and just don't turn on nonfree packages/firmware. It's fascinating reading those updates + wiki rambles from Hyperbola devs.
@lazyisolation@stereophonic.space @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @phnt@fluffytail.org @lolitechengineer@loli.church @shinyoukai@izu.laidback.moe Yes, Hyperbola is very opinionated for some very specific people who are also the only users.
If you want a good Arch-based distro with proprietary software removed you should install Parabola instead.
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