Egregoros

@menherahair@eientei.org remote

9w

I never thought of that comparison, but yes, I suppose so.

I think speakers making music on demand are already kind of dead. Vinyl may add a small bit of ritual to that process, but they can't ever have the life that a guitar or a cello has by it's very construction...

menherahair

9w

@r000t @cjd >90s computers were more alive because they had super loud fans and hard drive clicks
TRVKE

Caleb James DeLisle

@mint@ryona.agency remote

9w

> Needless romantization of flawed, outdated technology we've grown past

Replying to @menherahair@eientei.org

9w

@menherahair @r000t @cjd My WD Ultrastars are still as loud as ever. The fact I had to zip tie one of them since I ran out of free bays probably doesn't help either.

Phantasm (away)

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote

9w

@r000t @cjd

90s computers were more alive because they had super loud fans and hard drive clicks

Yes, it had character. Now every computer is just a boring box of electronics. Laptops are even worse when none of them even bother with something as simple as disk activity. Just like EVs are all boring. Sure, they can easily pull fast acceleration. With a boring and slightly annoying whine.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Caleb James DeLisle

@ReadyKilowatt@noauthority.social remote

9w

I think it's actually a form of "user experience" issue.

Things like a wood fire require a lot of manual intervention to keep running correctly. And they give a lot of UX feedback, in the form of colors, sounds, smell, and radiation.

This is something we find very appealing - probably we have even DNA at this point that makes us like a fire when it's going well.

Engines are a little bit similar, they have a lot of failure modes - particularly early ones such as steam and simplistic oil engines. And they are continuously communicating with the user through sound/vibration.

A lot of modern equipment doesn't need that much intervention so it doesn't need to communicate very much. But when it does, it's typically super autistic (popups, error messages, warning lights, buzzers, and the like).

When we're trying to design things, we should always be aiming to communicate fluidly with the user, not only because it creates something of beauty, but because it reduces cognitive load on the user and helps them make better decisions.

One challenge we face though is standardization. The sound of an engine struggling because you're climbing a hill in the wrong gear is defacto standardized because it's endemic to the design of the engine. However, the "sound" of battery state of charge or state of health is undefined, and if you define it in your product, there's no guarantee the next person will use the same definition...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Sir ReadyKilowatt

9w

@cjd "But there's something about them that EVs can never really replace,"

The energy density and easy transfer of gasoline?

Replying to @ReadyKilowatt@noauthority.social

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@ReadyKilowatt @cjd energy density combined with easy storage is a killer feature.

gubmint can shut down the grid, they can't keep you from storing jerrycans of fuel. "but but solar panels!" yeah, you can change your car one time and go maybe 600km with that. i can have a full tank and go 1000km and have the back full of jerry cans to go another 2000km.

Replying to @ReadyKilowatt@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

Transfer rates of pumping gasoline are actually solved. The amount of voltage and amperage in the cables is terrifying, but it does work and it's in production now.

Energy density of gasoline (30% usable) is about 4 kWh/kg, and current batteries are about 0.25 kWh/kg. 0.5 is in the lab, 1 is probably attainable this decade. However, nobody outside of aviation really cares.

The BIG convenience of gasoline is you can carry it in a jerrycan. But again, the places where this is really important are very niche.

EVs don't have to beat ICEs on every metric, they just have to win at enough to be a better deal. A horse can use grass as fuel, and grass grows everywhere - yet cars still replaced horses.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@cjd @ReadyKilowatt if i'd have the time and space i'd get a horse ;)

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@cjd @ReadyKilowatt and, like i wrote, i think big part of the push for EV is that it makes control more easy. fuel is in a jerrycan, batteries are incompatible proprietary stuff. you won't get charge and you will like it and your neighbor can't help you.

the only ones that will have IC engines will be the police etc. for precisely this reason.

maybe i shoul take off the tinfoil for a while.

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

The push for EVs (at least in Europe and Asia) is that governments are sick of oil being used as geopolitical leverage by the US.

As you said, you'd get a horse... There are people who will do that, but it's pretty marginal. Most people care about cost and convenience, and that's it.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

FourOh-LLC

9w

My 2025 Jeep Compass shuts down its ICE at nearly every stop, then when its starts back up the battery draw alarm comes ON. Its a good thing I lease it, otherwise I would have sold it already.

I want my manual transmission, hand-cranked windows back and all the automation gone from my cars. I do not want my car to speak to me, to tremble the steering wheel when I get too close to the lane divider, or shut down the engine by ONSTAR when its reported stolen.

I am not against EVs, I am against buying something that is more complex than what it needs to be. EVs are starting an arms-race that is not going to be in the best interest of anyone and anything, its shaping up to be a suicide-cult.

Replying to @FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

> My 2025 Jeep Compass

Chrysler has been making junk for decades now, that one is kind of on you.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

FourOh-LLC

9w

Stelantis owns Jeep, and they lost their direction to continue to be a rugged off-road company and they decided to become a luxury brand.

But this is not only Jeep, every ICE maker now wants to be more like an EV maker. This is a genuine arms-race nobody will win.

Replying to @FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@FourOh-LLC @ReadyKilowatt @cjd sorry, you can't have the 10k$ toyota truck

Replying to @FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

Jeep got bought by AMC in 1970, which then got bought by Chrysler in 1987. But Chrysler has been bankrupt more or less continuously since 1979 - and they've been making trash since about that long as well.

They got bought by Fiat in what was essentially a bankruptcy sale, after Daimler decided they were done losing money on them - and then Fiat merged with Peugeot to form Stelantis in like 2019 or something...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

FourOh-LLC

9w

Way before that Daimler AG merged with Chrysler, so it was the fault of Mercedes that Chrysler became a B-rate production (just kidding).

EVs will go through the same or worse shitshow. You cannot "store" electricity, it either moves or it dies. The same will happen to all this brads that bet the shop on storing electricity. Its a fucked up idea from the foundations all the way to its first hundredth floor.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Quercus

9w

The big downside of gasoline is that it has to be drilled out of the earth and produced in a refinery.
Electricity can be produced almost everywhere with very little effort.
Sure, the technological development ran differently (it was easier to transport fuel somewhere than to use electricity - many alpine huts had/have gas lighting for that reason), but today it is entirely possible to have off-grid electricity - not in a city and not for industrial purposes.

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

FourOh-LLC

@Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club remote

9w

I am not talking about a car you can buy, I am talking about a kit you can assemble. There is something called "Right to Repair", and that would be the natural extension.

I grew up on a farm In Soviet-occupied Hungary in the seventies, and by the time I was ten I was helping welding frames for recycled 50 CC motorcycle engines, for tractors. The guy who did the ignition and signal wiring was the local genius, he was an electrical engineer.

Cars might not be made into kits, but trucks could and should.

Replying to @quercus@poa.st

🐘🐘 Humpleupagus 🐘🐘

9w

Electricity requires digging in the earth too though, so I'm not following your logic here.

Replying to @Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club

Quercus

@Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club remote

9w

Not for the actual production, though.
You can put a solar array somewhere in the bush and live off it. You can't make it there, that is part of what I meant with "industrial purposes".

Replying to @quercus@poa.st

🐘🐘 Humpleupagus 🐘🐘

9w

At the point of production of energy, gas doesn't require digging either.

Replying to @Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club

Quercus

9w

If the solar array factory stops working, all the already running arrays continue to work until their natural demise.
If the refinery stops, it's a few weeks at most until everything dependent on fuel stops.

Replying to @Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club

Caleb James DeLisle

@Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club remote

9w

The difference is with petroleum and coal you have ongoing fuel costs and a supply chain. With solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear* you don't.

*Technically you continue to pay for nuclear fuel, but it's such a small part of the overall cost that it doesn't matter.

Replying to @quercus@poa.st

🐘🐘 Humpleupagus 🐘🐘

9w

All things break. I think you're applying two different standards or you're not clear on what standard you're applying, and it's causing you to misunderstand the costs and risks inherent in each form of potential energy.

Replying to @quercus@poa.st

Sir ReadyKilowatt

@ReadyKilowatt@noauthority.social remote

9w

@quercus @Humpleupagus @cjd

But then you're limited to traveling 1/2 the distance you can charge.

FWIW, there are ranches in my county that have gas wells on the property. Most of them get a gas line right off the wellhead for free as part of the deal (they also get about $5K/month if they own the minerals). It's possible to get gas in much of the world, just comes down to how hard you want to work for it.

Replying to @Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club

Quercus

9w

@Humpleupagus @ReadyKilowatt @cjd
Sure, all things break.
But that usually takes a long time, while the supply of something I'm not in control of can run out much faster.
India is right at this moment already facing a fuel crisis because the straight of Hormuz is closed.

Replying to @ReadyKilowatt@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

That's actually a funny point because if you have a gasoline car, you STILL have to pay for fuel because gas from a gas well is natural gas (methane), not gasoline...

But if you have an EV, you can charge it using a stationary gas powered generator, so in that case you will not pay for fuel...

Replying to @quercus@poa.st

Caleb James DeLisle

@ned@noauthority.social remote

9w

Example: Fuel shortage has already started to have major impacts. But the Sam Altman RAM shortage hasn't really impacted anyone who wasn't replacing their computer Just Now...

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Sir Nedwood

9w

@cjd
It's an aesthetic, like steam punk but real.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Quercus

9w

Well, you COULD run a compressor and have a car that runs on CNG.
But how many farms actually have their own gas well and how is that applicable outside of west Texas?

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@cjd @ReadyKilowatt that might be a part, that it's more easy to control could be just a very welcome side effect.

"most people" usually is a terrible argument, "most people" injected themselves with a substance of unknown composition and now we have sudden death of people in their 30s in the news on a weekly basis..

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

Quercus

@ReadyKilowatt@noauthority.social remote

9w

Yes, and then it's over - forever if the government wants it that way, because you can't produce your own gasoline.
With solar you can keep on driving locally until your car or solar array breaks.

Replying to @quercus@poa.st

Sir ReadyKilowatt

9w

@quercus @Humpleupagus @cjd There's gas all over western PA and upstate New York (but NY won't touch it because fracking is "dangerous"), Colorado, WY, Utah... Then there's the gulf coast, California, western Canada. Heck, most of France and Western Europe has some gas in the ground, there's just no political motivation to get it.

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

Well, "most people" define what is widely available. If 90% of car drivers switch to electric, you're going to have to drive 3x as far to find a gas station...

Replying to @quercus@poa.st

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@quercus @ReadyKilowatt @cjd get the car rigged for seed oils or alcohol or cng or wood gas or ...

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

Wood gas is quite complex and requires a bunch of annoying hardware along with it. So putting it in a car is dumb.

It's much more effective to keep the wood gas rig stationary and use it to charge the car. And in the summer you can just charge with solar panels so you don't even need the wood.

This comic, but unironically:

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@quercus @ReadyKilowatt @cjd hypothetical scenario: russia attacks ukraine and you are a civilian man trying to get out while there still is enough chaos and you stand a chance to cross the border without getting send to the meat grinder to die for corrupt politicians. you have to go some hundred kilometers in one go though.

get 2-3 jerrycans, fill them up, fill up the tank, vs. charging for an hour half the way, provided that part of the net didn't go out in the chaos.

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

How much gas do you have at your house right now?
Is it enough to make it across the border if you need to?

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

Quercus

9w

The problem is that if you store your fuel now, it's probably fouled when you really need it in e.g. 10 years. So you also need to make sure to regularly refresh your storage. And you can bet that if shit hits the fan, there won't be any fuel available at gast stations as well - due to hoarding and government restrictions (the same applies if the electrical grid is down).
I'd argue that no 2-track vehicle is really good in an emergency. A bike or motorbike is probably better as you can avoid roads with congestion and checkpoints.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@cjd @ReadyKilowatt @quercus depends on the border ;)

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

Caleb James DeLisle

9w

So basically what you're telling me is you have what's in your tank...

Which is very typical, because most people are not preppers.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

🌈ᚩ🌈

9w

@cjd @ReadyKilowatt @quercus i have what's in my tank and some 20L cans with conservation added ;)

Replying to @bonifartius@noauthority.social

🌈ᚩ🌈

@mhjohnson@noauthority.social remote

9w

@cjd @ReadyKilowatt @quercus i try not to overdo the prepping because at a point it gets stupid, but a bit of preparation goes a long way.

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Mark ☑️

9w

@cjd
FYI - I found a slightly large version of that image
https://ralphbuncheinstitute.org/charging-a-tesla-in-germany/

@bonifartius @ReadyKilowatt @quercus

Replying to @cjd@pkteerium.xyz

Sinistra delenda est.

@ThatWouldBeTelling@shitposter.world remote

9w

@cjd @ReadyKilowatt @bonifartius "The push for EVs (at least in Europe and Asia) is that governments are sick of oil being used as geopolitical leverage by the US."

Can you supply some examples that were detrimental to Europe and Asia?

Off the top of my head, the biggest one was Saudi Arabia signing on to Reagan's decision to end the Evil Empire and lowering oil prices and thus Soviet foreign currency income. Just one of many active measures to bankrupt them, after they'd already done a good job of that by over producing missiles due to internal politics and outfitting North Vietnam with three complete armies worth of equipment.

Replying to @ThatWouldBeTelling@shitposter.world

Caleb James DeLisle