Egregoros

@cjd friend look at all the shit I had to add to this setup script and tell me im hyperbolic: https://github.com/igeljaeger/devuan-fresh-setup/blob/main/devuan-fresh-setup.sh

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The two things I like the least about it are apt (but we knew that was gonna happen), and flatpak.

@cjd flatpak is the best thing to happen to linux since the native steam client

Thought it was some competitor to snap...

Anyway, I'm not challenging your experience. Linux desktop distros all suck. I've never found a single one that wasn't utter dog shit to use, with "was he drunk" level bugs everywhere you look...

@cjd you can self host flaptak repos so its not like snaps at all

Is it a package manager for chrooted packages like nix? Because someone trying to do that for real would be pretty neat.

@cjd no it's like docker sandboxes but for desktop users

:sigh:

Oh well...

My favorite linux is still OpenWrt.

@cjd ... is there a problem?

IDK it's just frustrating software advances at the speed of a snail.

@cjd sandboxes are a good thing imo. I installed steam via the official deb packages. Uninstalled it. And now I cant install it anymore because of some retarded apt problems. Flatpak solves this.

Right but then the question is why can't you flatpak the entire distro?

@cjd @teto can't relate
Been using Linux as a daily driver for over 2 years and am very pleased with it overall
Guess I don't do technically deep stuff
For the normie user it's reached good levels

What distro and what WM ?

@cjd the fact flatpak works is because whatever the maintainer expects is always given. I tried installing steam on fedora and it didnt work. Had to look up why. Steam client expected some certs that dont exist. Flatpak? Well it ships that. So works immediately.

@cjd @Kagekokoro hes on kubuntu and just does normal office stuff and gaming. Like most people would

Okay, but can you flatpak like libc and the kernel, and then eliminate apt entirely ?

@cjd yes you can. Its a sandbox that ships all of linux that it needs. Like docker does. Only a problem for people who have very little storage space.

@cjd steamOS is based on arch but pacman is not functional for users. You can only use flatpak. As an example.

Yeah so each app carries an entire system with it.

It's based on the assumption that the underlying system is totally fucked - which sadly is the only safe assumption you can make.

But it only makes a blast shield to protect one desktop app from a fucked system, it doesn't do anything to unfuck the system itself.

@cjd I can spend 2 hours unfucking apt or reinstalling devuan to use apt steam or I can just stick to flatpak steam and not give a shit (makes no difference)

Yeah, I'm just gonna sit around and be a bitter old man and say it's a tragedy that the chroot idea from nix is not universal.

@cjd I just want to click install steam and then it works

@cjd call me a windows user for that but they have a point

Same. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@cjd MACFAG HAS NO RIGHT SHITTING ON FLATPAK PERIOD WTF

Heh, I run a few linux machines, just not the one in front of me...

What apple does - for better or worse - is they ship a standard base system, and then you can install whatever using homebrew and it mostly Just Works (because the base system is always exactly the same for everyone). Also their code (what I've seen of it) is generally not dog shit terrible.

@cjd well I use linux on my desktop and the iphone my employer gave me is in a signal blocking box so apple cant hear me jack off on company time

I don't use any phone to speak of - just once in a while to take a picture or get a text authentication thing. Devil's tablet.

BTW, verify that box you're using, I got one and it was garbage. If you put a YT song on and put it in the box, it should lose signal and the song should stop...

I hear flatpaks are trash

@cjd @teto Ubuntu plus KDE

@cjd Ive tested it plenty and the second it was closed I cant get a call in anymore. Doing its job

@teto @cjd and porn
Oh and there is even a flat flatpak for Qobuz, which is pretty neat

@JustJohnny @cjd theyre only trash to socially inept retards

I love flapjacks.

And flatass.

And flatabs

My ubuntu experiences were horrible. But then there was a time when I used to do development on my laptop rather than in a VM, and python (for example) destroys your install every single time.

Also I NEVER had apt-get dist-upgrade work correctly...

So you hate them?

Now we're talkin!

@cjd @Kagekokoro developers just cant relate to normal users

@JustJohnny @cjd very funny

Well, these days I never install anything on my laptop, so there's a chance I'd get away with ubuntu... But then if I'm never gonna install anything beyond browser, mail, vscode, pdf and a couple of chat apps - I could probably just install like alpine + XFCE or something incredibly simple...

my understanding is flat packs containerize programs for linux so thatt they don't break as soon as a lib on oyur pc updates linux actually has a real bad time with backwards compatibility for native programs becuase lib updates break shit all the time it's actually worse than windows if a program isn't updated regularly

> Distro developers are knuckle-dragging monkeys
> So we'll put a 20 foot wall around our program and include an entire mini distro along with it
> Because getting distro developers to stop being knuckle-dragging monkeys is unrealistic...

:|

@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny windows software in an exe ships everything too. Flatpaks are just windows software on a linux platform. And thats a good thing because these windows guys shriek at having to use a terminal. Just watch any linus tech tips linux video

@cjd @JustJohnny @madcuzbad Caleb when I was still working in second level windows support I thought "how could I make people not even think about this problem" never "how can I teach all these email office people how windows products work". I think the same about desktop linux. Trying to teach them will just result in anger and frustration from them. And then theyll just use mac. Like you do. For some reason.

I was just thinking apple was looking pretty good

Windows comes with an extraordinarily rich standard library though so in general, you don't need all that much in your exe file.

@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny most gaming exe files come with every kind of directx and other libraries. At least the piracy ones. Muh professional adobe shit is prob just a gagillion electron garbage

It's good enough for me. But I want to never ever ever have to fiddle fuck around with my desktop. Get it setup and then forget it exists for ... years.