linux sucks, use linux or linux instead (linux things) (it actually sucks)
RT: https://cawfee.club/objects/991c3ad1-b18d-42f8-a4ba-45e0a39df4e5
RT: https://cawfee.club/objects/991c3ad1-b18d-42f8-a4ba-45e0a39df4e5
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@cjd friend look at all the shit I had to add to this setup script and tell me im hyperbolic: https://github.com/igeljaeger/devuan-fresh-setup/blob/main/devuan-fresh-setup.sh
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The two things I like the least about it are apt (but we knew that was gonna happen), and flatpak.
The two things I like the least about it are apt (but we knew that was gonna happen), and flatpak.
@cjd flatpak is the best thing to happen to linux since the native steam client
Thought it was some competitor to snap...
Anyway, I'm not challenging your experience. Linux desktop distros all suck. I've never found a single one that wasn't utter dog shit to use, with "was he drunk" level bugs everywhere you look...
Anyway, I'm not challenging your experience. Linux desktop distros all suck. I've never found a single one that wasn't utter dog shit to use, with "was he drunk" level bugs everywhere you look...
@cjd you can self host flaptak repos so its not like snaps at all
Is it a package manager for chrooted packages like nix? Because someone trying to do that for real would be pretty neat.
@cjd no it's like docker sandboxes but for desktop users
:sigh:
Oh well...
My favorite linux is still OpenWrt.
Oh well...
My favorite linux is still OpenWrt.
@cjd ... is there a problem?
IDK it's just frustrating software advances at the speed of a snail.
@cjd sandboxes are a good thing imo. I installed steam via the official deb packages. Uninstalled it. And now I cant install it anymore because of some retarded apt problems. Flatpak solves this.
Right but then the question is why can't you flatpak the entire distro?
@cjd the fact flatpak works is because whatever the maintainer expects is always given. I tried installing steam on fedora and it didnt work. Had to look up why. Steam client expected some certs that dont exist. Flatpak? Well it ships that. So works immediately.
Okay, but can you flatpak like libc and the kernel, and then eliminate apt entirely ?
@cjd yes you can. Its a sandbox that ships all of linux that it needs. Like docker does. Only a problem for people who have very little storage space.
Yeah so each app carries an entire system with it.
It's based on the assumption that the underlying system is totally fucked - which sadly is the only safe assumption you can make.
But it only makes a blast shield to protect one desktop app from a fucked system, it doesn't do anything to unfuck the system itself.
It's based on the assumption that the underlying system is totally fucked - which sadly is the only safe assumption you can make.
But it only makes a blast shield to protect one desktop app from a fucked system, it doesn't do anything to unfuck the system itself.
@cjd I can spend 2 hours unfucking apt or reinstalling devuan to use apt steam or I can just stick to flatpak steam and not give a shit (makes no difference)
Yeah, I'm just gonna sit around and be a bitter old man and say it's a tragedy that the chroot idea from nix is not universal.
@cjd I just want to click install steam and then it works
Same. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@cjd MACFAG HAS NO RIGHT SHITTING ON FLATPAK PERIOD WTF
I hear flatpaks are trash
@JustJohnny @cjd theyre only trash to socially inept retards
So you hate them?
@JustJohnny @cjd very funny
my understanding is flat packs containerize programs for linux so thatt they don't break as soon as a lib on oyur pc updates linux actually has a real bad time with backwards compatibility for native programs becuase lib updates break shit all the time it's actually worse than windows if a program isn't updated regularly
> Distro developers are knuckle-dragging monkeys
> So we'll put a 20 foot wall around our program and include an entire mini distro along with it
> Because getting distro developers to stop being knuckle-dragging monkeys is unrealistic...
:|
> So we'll put a 20 foot wall around our program and include an entire mini distro along with it
> Because getting distro developers to stop being knuckle-dragging monkeys is unrealistic...
:|
@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny windows software in an exe ships everything too. Flatpaks are just windows software on a linux platform. And thats a good thing because these windows guys shriek at having to use a terminal. Just watch any linus tech tips linux video
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24Windows comes with an extraordinarily rich standard library though so in general, you don't need all that much in your exe file.
@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny most gaming exe files come with every kind of directx and other libraries. At least the piracy ones. Muh professional adobe shit is prob just a gagillion electron garbage
Yeah, I wanna hate cloood shit like OnShape, but I remember what horrors were packaged inside of AutoCad so ... yeah...
@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny APPLE AND MICROSOFT WOULD ACTIVELY SNITCH ON ME AND THEN THE GOVERNMENT WOULD CUT MY LIMBS OFF
🇷🇺
I always want to tell you to just install a OS that will run software when you click on it, and then I remember you live in a Foucaultian panoptical open air death camp for white people masquerading as a central European country
mine does that *shrug*
@cjd @JustJohnny @madcuzbad Caleb when I was still working in second level windows support I thought "how could I make people not even think about this problem" never "how can I teach all these email office people how windows products work". I think the same about desktop linux. Trying to teach them will just result in anger and frustration from them. And then theyll just use mac. Like you do. For some reason.
I was just thinking apple was looking pretty good
It's good enough for me. But I want to never ever ever have to fiddle fuck around with my desktop. Get it setup and then forget it exists for ... years.
@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny wow thats what I do. But like I said. Gaming and browsing. I only switch when my paranoia increases (like with systemd)
Do you run dist-upgrades ever?
@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny yes and it works. Certainly did like a bajillion times when I worked as a normal debian linux admin
I've never had it work in all the time I've ever run computers...
When a machine ages out, I spin up a new one, transfer the projects, and then kill it.
When a machine ages out, I spin up a new one, transfer the projects, and then kill it.
@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny you see for admins it works because we dont change anything. But for devs it doesnt because they always change shit. Thats why modern admins dont let you change the distro packages anymore (steamOS, bazzite, kde linux)
It's not like I go screwing around in /usr, I'm lazy, I just want the shortest path to something that works...
But nonetheless, dist-upgrade has always been - for me - a short road to "2 versions of libc, unknown weird dependency loop fuckery, dead machine"
But nonetheless, dist-upgrade has always been - for me - a short road to "2 versions of libc, unknown weird dependency loop fuckery, dead machine"
And yeah, actual *development* machines for me are VMs which I'm okay to kill off when I'm done with them...
@cjd @madcuzbad @JustJohnny we will never come to an understanding because developer-minded people might as well be their own species. I, as an admin, fully understand normal users, even techphobic ones. But you guys will never understand "us".
So are you saying that developer-minded people are best suited for Mac ? Because mostly I've heard that it's the opposite...
@cjd @JustJohnny @madcuzbad more accurately: most WEBSHIT devs like mac because they hate operating systems
> like mac because they hate operating systems
I hate computers
I hate computers
I am a self-confessed tech tard. Always have been. God bless those of you "out in the great beyond..."