Egregoros · Phoenix Framework

Post

Remote status

Context

rose ☭

postmarketos had to switch to systemd to be able to offer an immutable distribution (ignoring that gardenhouse exists, since its pretty new) to avoid having to implement a bunch of custom stuff
im sorry but how did only a minority of people look at the monopoly systemd has and realize that its actually not good to have that
everyone always complains about google and meta and microsoft having a monopoly but with systemd its completely okay?
systemd is essentially doing the same thing as those companies, locking features into their own massive codebase through dependencies that are completely unwarranted

Lucy

@30p87@chaos.social remote

@rose You could say the exact same about the kernel itself.

rose ☭

@rose@snac.pinkro.se remote

@30p87@chaos.social okay?
but I didn't talk about the kernel, I talked about Userspace, why bring up a kernel here

toebeans ch. 🇨🇳

@coolbean@brain.worm.pink remote

@rose @30p87 we have other kernels sl4 and the bsds are literally right here

also hurd but we dont talk about hurd

toebeans ch. 🇨🇳

@coolbean@brain.worm.pink remote

@rose @30p87 literally posting from openbsd right now my kernel is better than yours btw because it has plege() and unveil()

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote

@coolbean @30p87 @rose Linux also has those under a different name. But we don't talk about those...

toebeans ch. 🇨🇳

@coolbean@brain.worm.pink remote

@phnt @30p87 @rose the linux "equivalent" barely even qualifies as such. it has syscalls that can do the same thing but were designed not by committe but rather one of those infinite apes typing on a typewriter, but with a deadline and they just kinda had to pick the least bad draft at the end

toebeans ch. 🇨🇳

@coolbean@brain.worm.pink remote

@phnt @30p87 @rose like literally the only project that uses them is android and they dont even use upstream kernels so you could LITERALLY just deprecate and remove them in favor of something better but noone does because noone working on linux cares about making an actually good kernel at this point

Replying to @coolbean@brain.worm.pink

toebeans ch. 🇨🇳

@coolbean@brain.worm.pink remote

@30p87 @phnt @rose like i think bwrap uses landlock? but thats due to lack of better options not a choice they'd probably be on board with rewriting it for unveil()

Replies

Replying to @coolbean@brain.worm.pink

Phantasm

@phnt@fluffytail.org remote

@coolbean @30p87 @rose systemd, zathura and web browsers all use seccomp. I don't know about landlock which admittedly is much nicer to use than seccomp, mostly because AppArmor and SELinux overshadowed it.

Replying to @phnt@fluffytail.org

toebeans ch. 🇨🇳

@coolbean@brain.worm.pink remote

@phnt @30p87 @rose i honestly forgot what seccomp was even called but yea i remember both being considerably more unwieldy than openbsd equivalent fwiw