Why is Gnosticism so spiritually compelling? I am quite certain it is completely wrong, but it is fascinating and beautiful.
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@sun Because it's clearly correct, my friend. The law of Christ is written on the hearts of all men with a soul, and the desire to return to that which we all came is innate. Let's all return home together, away from this hell that we call Earth. 
Gnosticism is inherently incompatible with Christianity.
@Owl @ceo_of_monoeye_dating a lot of people disagree!
@sun @Owl @ceo_of_monoeye_dating it pretty much has to be. Salvation can not be your own working and Christ's, and without the need of salvation, what is Christ? It is on this point that gnosticism and Christianity are irreconcilable.
You cannot both save yourself and have need of Christ, exactly. Christ is the liberating factor in Christianity. Not your acquisition of knowledge.
@Owl @jeremiah @sun @ceo_of_monoeye_dating but even in christianity there is gnosis, they just call it salvation
@protos @Owl @sun @ceo_of_monoeye_dating they're not the same thing. gnosis is self-salvation through knowledge. Christianity is salvation through the grace of God. They're irreconcilable positions.
The only way "gnostic" fits in front of Christian is with a great deal of bending of Christianity to the point that it isn't, like the Moonies or so.
The only way "gnostic" fits in front of Christian is with a great deal of bending of Christianity to the point that it isn't, like the Moonies or so.
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@jeremiah @Owl @sun @ceo_of_monoeye_dating unless you actually read the new testament
<kjv /knowledge
>
Romans 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.
<kjv /knowledge
>
Romans 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.
@protos @Owl @sun @ceo_of_monoeye_dating
The knowledge referred to, for example, in 2nd TImothy, is knowledge of salvation through Christ.
Pulling verses out of context and suggesting that they endorse gnosticism requires not reading verses like John 14:6 which explicity reject the idea of gnosis/self-salvation.
The knowledge referred to, for example, in 2nd TImothy, is knowledge of salvation through Christ.
Pulling verses out of context and suggesting that they endorse gnosticism requires not reading verses like John 14:6 which explicity reject the idea of gnosis/self-salvation.
@jeremiah @protos @Owl @ceo_of_monoeye_dating the mistake you guys are all making are
1. treating gnosticism like one thing
2. not considering it can be present in degrees.
1. treating gnosticism like one thing
2. not considering it can be present in degrees.
@sun @Owl @ceo_of_monoeye_dating @protos
1. I explicitly said gnosticism was a category of beliefs, not "one thing."
2. By degrees sidesteps the issue of essence. What is it ESSENTIALLY. IF you have two things that are contradictory (Christianity and Gnosticism), it is ultimately one or the other because the two are irreconcilable, it cannot be both.
To say "present in degrees" doesn't really define anything usefully.
Finally, in 1 Timothy 6:20-21, St. Paul explicitly rejects gnosticism by name (though usually translated into English as "science" and "knowledge":) "O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith."
1. I explicitly said gnosticism was a category of beliefs, not "one thing."
2. By degrees sidesteps the issue of essence. What is it ESSENTIALLY. IF you have two things that are contradictory (Christianity and Gnosticism), it is ultimately one or the other because the two are irreconcilable, it cannot be both.
To say "present in degrees" doesn't really define anything usefully.
Finally, in 1 Timothy 6:20-21, St. Paul explicitly rejects gnosticism by name (though usually translated into English as "science" and "knowledge":) "O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith."
@jeremiah @Owl @ceo_of_monoeye_dating @protos alright sorry on the first part, but still you introduce platonism to christianity and you get some gnostic character and you can't extract it from what people believe today