Egregoros

@sampler @fish @light @phnt @icedquinn @strypey @p I hope Bluesky buys Mastodon at some point. I don't see any reason for them to compete with each other.

@phnt @icedquinn @fish @sampler @p @strypey @light Oh, I am sure this is just a misunderstanding. Nothing a couple of joint events couldn't fix

https://j12t.social/users/j12t/statuses/116421278749238608

Is it finally shutting down?

Fair enough, but I don't see the threat to fediverse as a whole. If bluesky want to merge with mastadon and create their own little echo-chamber then... ok. It doesn't really affect me.

@Deplorable_Degenerate
> What if they join our instances though?

Instances are like pubs. People like to hang out in different kinds of pubs, and that's OK. A pub stops being what it is if the social centre of gravity shifts. But that just means it becomes something else, and that's OK too.

As long as our city has space for many different kinds of pubs, everyone can find 1 or more they enjoy.

@icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @p @silverpill @Eiregoat@nicecrew.digital @light @coolboymew

(1/?)

@phnt
> those that try to shift the culture of the community unnaturally should be expelled from it

Sure, but that's clearly not what I'm talking about. Culture change in any community is slow but constant, as the people in them change. If some people leave and others join, this contributes to the same effect. The social centre of gravity in a loose-tie community is always shifting.

@icedquinn @fish @Deplorable_Degenerate @sampler @p @silverpill @light @coolboymew

(2/?)

@phnt
> You will get kicked out of a pub for being disruptive as well

Sure, but not for being at one end of the bell curve of people who hang out in that pub. Well, unless it's one of *those* kinds of pubs. But a growing city has space for those too, for people who want to be insular;

https://nora.codes/post/the-fediverse-is-already-dead/

These are all perfectly fine variations in the pub life of a city.

(3/3)

I mean, I remember when the cluster of people represented in this conversation arrived in the fediverse en masse. Mainly by joining quitter instances which ... weren't really the right pub for them. What did the veterans do? Did we try to have you banished from the city altogether?

No. We helped you set up your own pubs, and then some of you started Pleroma (and postActiv, RIP), or forked Misskey, etc. The tension between your needs and ours was handled creatively, to mutual benefit.

(1/?)

@phnt
> Fediblock effectively turning into a harassment tool with minimal value instead of its supposed original goal

I would say it's been both simultaneously. Which is why it needs to be replaced by a standard protocol that keeps moderation decentralised, but enables newbie admins/mods to find and use automated support provided by veterans.

@icedquinn @fish @Deplorable_Degenerate @sampler @p @silverpill @light @coolboymew

(2/?)

I got much less worried about IFTAS when I started looking into the details of what they're building;

https://wedistribute.org/podcast/trust-safety-jaz-michael-king/

Bear with me as I lay out a nonpartisan case for what they're doing.

(3/?)

The video posted elsewhere in this hellthread demonstrates that there is a need for newbies setting up fediverse servers to have a simple way to protect themselves from spammers (including griefers). The obvious example is people spewing racist bile (no one needs to see that kind of low-effort toddler dickwaving). But from my POV, it equally includes identi-Moonies haranguing me for being a racist just for being in this conversation, or talking to folks from the 'Dark Side' at all.

(4/?)

Supporting newbie admins/mods - and especially self-hosters running single-tenant instances - is particularly important if we want a fediverse of many small-to-medium instances. Rather than having most people corralled into a handful of proprietary corporate instances (eg Threats), whose owners can afford to do adequate moderation in-house.

(6/?)

@phnt
> Sadly this ability to handle tension seems to be mostly gone now

There's a lot more partisanship, for sure, something that comes with a larger population. But the veterans are still here! Still trying to get people to talk to each other and find win-win solutions that enable us all to peacefully coexist, instead of muttering in dark corners spreading scuttlebutt about each other.

(8/?)

Jaz is a different story. An arrival on one of the 2017 ships, so not an OG like Evan, DeadSuperHero and Mike McG, or even CLM. But not, as often characterised, an opportunist who turned up as part of Eternal November.

Yes, Jaz is part of Newsmast as well as IFTAS, and toot.wales. But relatively speaking we're still a tiny dev community, so it's neither surprising nor suspicious that some really enthusiastic people have their fingers in a lot of pies.

(9/?)

I mean shit, if we're going to be wary of people for turning up all over the place, I'm suspicious AF!

I'm a longtimer at SocialHub (from before it was reestablished at the current subdomain), and at fediverse.party, where I'm now Lead Goose. I mouth off regularly in the Fediverse Ideas repo, and the.socialmusic.network. I turn up in a bunch of fediverse-related Matrix rooms, etc, etc.

(1/2)

@cy
> Hostile takeovers of communities by refugees fleeing disaster has n e v e r happened

@phnt
> Factually incorrect, if you want the best example of that, look at furry communities and/or Tumblr exodus after its porn ban.

Can you expand on that? Who were the refugees here? What disaster were they fleeing? Whose communities were taken over?

@icedquinn @fish @Deplorable_Degenerate @sampler @light @coolboymew

@PurpCat
> Twitter is hostile too ofc but Bluesky has the Will Stancils of the world

"At the heart of the Stancilwaffen lies an unshakeable conviction: Will Stancil holds a divine mandate to Repair America Practically Everywhere—or to RAPE at his leisure. He is our visionary vanguard, divinely inspired to mend the rips in America's fabric."

https://willstancil.com/

That guy?

@icedquinn @fish @phnt @sampler @p @silverpill @light

"Like, what do you even do?"

#WillStancil

You stop feeding the trolls you dopey clot, that's what you do. That is, in you're not pure ego in a man skin, who thrives on negative reinforcement, and secretly *enjoys* having satirical cartoons about you.

@phnt
@icedquinn @PurpCat @fish @sampler @p @silverpill @light

(1/?)

@silverpill
> Nothing a couple of joint events couldn't fix

Sounds good to me. Although we might need to supply the Mastodon Homeowners Association and the Public Not Public folks with some entheogens stronger than ganja, before they can get out of their own heads and gain the ability to question their own assumptions ; }

@phnt @icedquinn @fish @sampler @p @light

(2/?)

But I agree with Johannes here.

The fediverse emerged from an understanding that no *one* ethical platform can replace the network effects of the megafauna (as CoHost quickly learned). Forcing Ryan to make BF opt-in - after years of causing no problems whatsoever as an opt-out bridge to the IndieWeb - was a ludicrous self-punch by the Mastodon HOA. If we can fully integrated ATProto stuff into the fediverse, so much the better.

(3/3)

ATProto is in the process of being standardised at IETF. Even if BS is killed tomorrow, and broken up and sold for scrap by its Venture Capitalist owners, ATProto is not going away. Any more than Nostr is.

The AP fediverse came about as a merger of OStatus, Diaspora and DFRN/Zot networks. It seems logical to me that in 10 years time we could be looking back at the AP, ATProto and Nostr networks the same way. From within a fediverse that somehow transcends and includes them all.